[Balloon-makers] Oxygen Starved Burner?

[Arnaud Deramecourt]

big black boxes : you mean the two velcro areas to attach an 
"advertizing streamer" ?
Yes, you have to tune up the pilot light to avoid it is blown out.

 >Since my burners are not arranged side by side like yours I'll have to 
use two fans.

I'm not the owner of the gefa flug airship on the pictures... unfortunatly !

Arnaud


Kyle Kepley a écrit :
> Thanks for the pictures Arnaud, I can see how those valves work now.  
> What are the big black box outlines on each side of the gondola 
> visible from the bottom view picture?
>
> I was up till 3am building larger fans directly under the burners last 
> night on my RC model.  I got one of them done and fired it up in open 
> air and noticed that the flame is completely blue now.  The pilot 
> lights have to be turned up full blast to keep them from getting blown 
> out.  Before the fan the pilot  lights were a lazy yellow flame, but 
> with the air flow they look like a pure blue blowtorch flame.  Since 
> my burners are not arranged side by side like yours I'll have to use 
> two fans.
>
> -Kyle
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From*: "Arnaud Deramecourt" <deramecourt at yahoo.fr>
> *Sent*: Sunday, April 12, 2009 8:54 AM
> *To*: "Bill Whelan" <bwhelan at sympatico.ca>
> *Subject*: Re: [Balloon-makers] Oxygen Starved Burner?
>
> Hi List,
>
> I put some pictures of a gefaflug HAA on my website.
> http://aerostation.free.fr/mfr/ADETairship/
>
> I will remove this files in two weeks.
>
> You can see on these pictures :
> * fan to pressurize / impulse oxygen under the burner
> * vents to evacuate the air. These two vents are located far from the
> pressurization fan. So this is the coolest air which is pushed through
> these vents.
>
> I hope this could help.
> Arnaud (owner of a DP70 without the fan, which had this oxygen problem !)
>
>
>
> Bill Whelan a écrit :
> > Yes that's what you have lack of Oxygen ..
> >
> > On the big airships, there is a fan operating for pressurization, on
> > your airship it is Rigid...
> > on our Lindstrand airship, we also have a sliding Plexiglas door for
> > access to the burners.
> > this can be opened on a little on Hot days
> > Can you make a small adjustable opening, so oxygen/air can get in at
> > the burners...
> >
> > Just a quick thought.
> >
> > wild bill EH!!!
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* balloon-makers-bounces at taleos.com
> > [mailto:balloon-makers-bounces at taleos.com] *On Behalf Of *Kyle Kepley
> > *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2009 1:56 AM
> > *To:* balloon-makers at taleos.com
> > *Subject:* [Balloon-makers] Oxygen Starved Burner?
> >
> > I have an obscure problem and was hoping somone knowlegable
> > about thermal airsips might have an idea what is going on. I have
> > built a 40ft long RC thermal blimp with a volume of 2900 cubic feet.
> > It has two burners angled away from each other at 45 degrees just like
> > the real blimps have. The blimp works great... for about 10-15
> > minutes. Then the burners start missing (just blownig gas that
> > doesn't ignite). A short while later the pilot lights go out and can
> > not be re-ignited. The fuel tanks are not empty. If I remove the
> > gongola and fire it back up in open air with the same fuel tanks, it
> > works fine. This happens before the tanks have used up all the liquid
> > fuel and start burning vapor, so it's not a vapor issue.
> >
> > The only thing I can think of is that after about 10-15 minutes I have
> > consumed enough oxygen inside the envelope that the propane won't burn
> > well. The envelope is sealed up pretty goodl, with the only air
> > coming in from a pressurization fan. Apparenly the incoming air isn't
> > enough to replace the oxygen at the same rate it is being consumed.
> > The air inside smells very rancid when it is dumped out, and there is
> > a slight bit of smoke fumes in it (not condensation, but actual smoke
> > that hangs in the air after exiting). I'm guessing this is some kind
> > of byproduct left over from incomplete combustion.
> >
> > If oxygen starvation is what's killing my burners, then I imagine it
> > would be a pretty difficult problem to overcome. It seems like this
> > same problem would still scale itself as size increases, such that
> > full size airships would experience the same thing. How do the
> > commercial thermal airships deal with this problem? Aren't the
> > burners on the real deal also selaed up internally with only a
> > pressurization fan or prop wash getting scooped back in to maintain
> > pressure?
> >
> > -Kyle
> >
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